School Districts Alter Pledge of Allegiance – Christian News Blog

It is amazing how far we will go just to appease a small fraction of the population! In this case, a school doesn’t want to offend atheists so they doctor the Pledge of Allegiance. How many atheists are in this school? One? Two? Ninety-two percent of Americans believe in God and yet we would ask them to be quiet about it so that we do not disturb the 7% who don’t and the 1% who have no opinion! Honestly, how many more ways will we find to reject God? How long will God continue to hold back judgement from a nation that has so eloquently denied Him?

Interestingly, a Lifeway poll says it found that 25% of Americans feel that forcing kids to say “under God” violates their rights. That’s just the thing: no one is forced to say “under God.” The real issue is that they feel they have a right not to hear the word God! There are a lot of things I would like not to hear but there is a matter of free speech (or there was back when we were a nation under God!).

You can’t make this stuff up! (Well, you could, but in America you don’t have to!)

School Districts Alter Pledge of Allegiance – Christian News Blog.

35 thoughts on “School Districts Alter Pledge of Allegiance – Christian News Blog

  1. Ignostic Atheist

    Reblogged this on Ignostic Atheist and commented:
    Here’s the deal, a child that excuses himself every morning to avoid dealing with the pledge, or remains sitting and not participating, will be branded as an outsider, bullied and ostracized. Children desperately want to fit in with their peers, so failing to participate, to not put your hand over your heart and stand with the rest, is not an option. Moreover, a child has no reason to not participate. He’s not put in the thought to come to a conclusion on the matter of the existence of a god, making the pledge a weakly disguised tool of indoctrination through communal repetition. Still more, the origin of the pledge was not religious in nature in the first place – it was to inculcate children with mindless patriotism through repetition rather than providing an actual reason to love the country. The addition of “under God” was not until the 50’s, in response to the godless commies and McCarthyism.

    Personally, I’m ok with kids not being uber patriots. I would rather they grow up to fix the issues their country faces instead of hiding behind jingoistic rhetoric about how America is The Best There Is and Ever Will Be, and making something to be proud of rather than convincing themselves that the turd they inherited is made of gold. If you desperately want to indoctrinate your children, with patriotism or belief in your particular flavor of religion, that’s what you have sunday school for. Feel free to, and leave the rest of us alone.

    • cscottfowler

      Your last line is hilarious, “Leave the rest of us alone!” You the 7% of you! You are correct that “under God” was not added until the 50s. That does not mean it wasn’t sincere and most Americans do believe it and appreciate it. No matter how you decide to argue against it it will always be from a minority position because most people believe in God.

      By the way, no one is saying they should not stand up, or that they should be branded, etc. They can surely learn to stand by their convictions. If they don’t believe in God, don’t say that line. But if it is America you hate (as you seem to to some degree), that’s a different issue. At any rate, I appreciate the exchange and welcome more dialogue over this article or any of the others on this blog! Thank you!

      • Ignostic Atheist

        Most Americans who are saying it every day are too young to have put the thought into the question of a god. They’re simply doing as they’re told, as I said. This is an issue of child psychology – they desperately want to fit in, and will participate as to not be branded as an outsider. I did it when I was in grade school, and it was not because I had thought the issue over and decided that there is a god and our country is “under” him. I did it because I was told to, and because everyone else was doing it. I don’t wish that kind of indoctrination on my own children.

        However, and perhaps more importantly, you ride the “You’re just a minority” horse awful hard. Since when was America all about promoting the tyranny of the majority? I seem to recall the fathers were rather proud about ensuring that minority beliefs (such as their own) are not disparaged. I suppose that, if Islam were to ever take hold in the US, and become the large majority, you would be fine with your children praising Allah in school?

        Also, I delight in how you assume that in acknowledging that America is not the best and most amazing country ever, and in fact has some impressively dirty marks on its record, that I therefore hate America. A beautiful look at the black and white logic of a religious ideologue.

  2. john zande

    “How long will God continue to hold back judgement from a nation that has so eloquently denied Him?”

    Well, you could ask Norway (78% atheist), Sweden (88%), Switzerland (57%), Australia (67%), Canada (61%), Finland (69%), Germany (62%), Israel (54%), Luxembourg (64%), Netherlands (65%), New Zealand (67%), UK (67%), who’re all doing massively better than the United States in every field and index.

      • john zande

        Not in so many words, although having a rational population certainly helps.

        My point was simply that you seem to equate ignoring your particular Middle Eastern god with a countries economic/societal degradation. This, quite evidently, is nonsense.

        • cscottfowler

          Interesting that atheists think that roughly 80% of the world’s population is irrational, which is of course the height of arrogance. I made no mention of economic degradation. I believe in God and you don’t. We will of course find out who was right in the end.

          So, let me ask you about your atheism? Why are you and atheist? Are you an atheist or an agnostic? Do you not believe in God or do you believe there is no God?

                    • cscottfowler

                      Excuse me, saying you dont believe in any Gods is not the same as saying you believe there is no God. Come on man. Maybe you should reread your words.

                    • john zande

                      Hi Scott

                      If you want to play a semantic game, then weak atheist (the absence of belief in any gods) is the only possible truthful answer (something at least approaching an approximation of “truth”).

                      I’m assuming you’re a strong atheist, correct?

                    • cscottfowler

                      John, thanks for your answer. I would invite you to the same kind of dialogue I invited Ignostic Atheist too. It is possible to have a discussion in which people sharply agree but refrain from being personally insulting.

                    • john zande

                      Of course. I don’t need to resort to insults, although i’d caution you (in a friendly sense) to not use such loose terms as “belligerent” if you wish your appeal to remain intact.

                      So, as you so clearly wanted to play a semantic game, am I to assume you’re a strong atheist?

                    • cscottfowler

                      If you thought I was an atheist you wouldn’t be on this site. By the way, belligerent just means “eager to fight.” But you are right: I should have said that you guys were coming off belligerent, not that you were belligerent. I stand corrected and apologize for that and for whatever else you feel was unwarrented. . Nevertheless, I do feel that you are eager to fight. Which is fine, but there are ways of fighting…

                    • john zande

                      Hi Scott

                      Don’t worry, I’m not confrontational, or rude, by nature. I saw your statement about your particular god punishing the US and thought it required a little sane push back, that’s all.

                      But I was being serious asking you about your strong atheism. I don’t say I’m strong atheist for the simple reason that I cannot say with 100% certainty to know anything. I’m guessing, though, I’d be correct in saying that you are, however, 100% certain other gods (such as the omnipotent creator deity of the Yoruba people, Olódùmarè) do not exist?

                      I’m only asking because you started off somewhat determined to get a defined position out of me.

                    • cscottfowler

                      Hi John, Actually this exchange has brought to light a new understanding for me, that being the hesitance on some atheist’s part to accept agnosticism as a valid category or position as refers to the existence of God (one article saying they might be seen as cowardly by some atheists). So, my attempt to determine your particular position was based on the Christian perspective that one who definitely declares there is no God is probably further away from our position of faith than one who has not gone that far in his or her determinations, i.e. choosing to be neutral or even open to the discussion.

                      Interesting though, John: are you driving at the idea that because I believe there is only one God, and that all other claims of deities are false claims, that in some way that is an example of atheism?

                      By the way, while I believe that God has, could now, and will in the future intentionally mete out judgment, I rather believe that the present danger that America is in is a removal of God’s blessings, not because He chooses to do that but because we have chosen to ask Him to leave.

                      So, John, if you were to write an article correcting the typical evangelical misconceptions about atheism I would feature it on my blog and invite others to join in the discussion. I am not saying I have a large readership at all but we might enjoy some good dialogue.

                    • john zande

                      Hi Scott. Thanks for the offer. I’ll certainly consider it. Can’t promise anything in the short term, though.

                      Out of interest, why do you think your god has any interest in America at all? Why so focused on 9,826,675 km2 in a universe of 500 billion galaxies? Why so nationalistic? We’ve all heard of the rather audacious term, “American Exceptionalism,” but isn’t this taking it to extremes? 

                      Regarding strong atheism, I guess I could just ask you a question: are you certain Olódùmarè, for example, doesn’t exist?

                    • cscottfowler

                      Hi John, I actually don’t intend to infer that God cares only for America. Not at all. America gets my focus for a few reasons. First, I am here. This is what I know and the only place where I can speak with any kind of credibility as pertains to what i observe in the culture, what I know of our heritage, the distance we have drifted (in my estimation and according to a Biblical standard) from our prior posture before God, etc. Second, In Christianity (not that you would not already know this), there is greater danger for one who has known God and forsaken Him than for one who has never known Him and does not believe He exists. So, for America, in spite of what the popular media suggests, America was strongly Christian in its origins and has left that behind in many ways. This, according to the Bible, places any people in danger of judgment. All of this would be and is true for any nation that rejects God, but America is the field I labor in, live in, and am called to.

                      My belief in God certainly began with my upbringing, but after considerable education, I have not tried to avoid the questions that are frequently asked by atheists, etc. So, I can say that I believe because I am satisfied that I have encountered the living God. There are many things that I consider to be strong evidence of God’s existence, and further that there is one God, and that that God is the God of the Bible, not the least of which is my own personal experience of Him through my conversion, answered prayers, etc. I think it is preposterous to imagine that all that we see in the universe came about randomly, therefore I believe in a designer. Once I believe in a designer, I have encountered no other “God story” that comes close to ringing true except for Judaism/Christianity. Having believed God outside of an incubator of skepticism, I was afforded the opportunity to understand and consequently to experience God for myself. So, for that reason, I could never be convinced that God does not exist without having to deny, for example, that I have experienced a life-changing conversion, the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and many confirmations of His Presence and workings in my life.

                      I hope you can get to that article. In the meantime I am sure you will see that I re-blogged one of your articles.

                    • john zande

                      I did. Thanks, although I probably would have chosen another post for my glorious debut! 🙂 Thanks also for you story. I was raised Catholic as well; schooled by Carmelite nuns, then Augustinian priests.

                      You didn’t however answer my question regarding what I’m guessing is your strong atheism: Are you certain Olódùmarè, the omnipotent creator god of the Yoruba people, doesn’t exist?

                    • cscottfowler

                      Yes. Put it this way: I believe in heaven and hell and God. I believe my eternal destiny depends on what I believe. I have absolutely no doubts that the Bible tells us the story of the one, true, living God! If I were to die tonight it is Jesus, not Olodumare that I will trust my eternal existence to. Now, if you are about to tell me that the Yoruba people believe in Jesus and Olodumare is their name for Him, then I will request permission to revise and extend my remarks! 🙂

                    • cscottfowler

                      Interesting! So, then, what is the difference between a strong atheist who believes in no God, and a strong atheist who believes in only one God?

                    • cscottfowler

                      “We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

                      ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

                      I suppose it all comes down to whether you believe it is plausible that God could exist. Not just whether He does but whether he could. If I am open to that possibility, then the idea of being an atheist in reference to all gods’ except the one True God would be expected. (If there is a God, there is only one because two Gods cannot both be all-powerful, etc.) But in that scenario, going one god further would be going one God too far. Dawkins’ quote seems to say, “If you are not going to believe in all the gods, why believe in any of them?” And the only reason to believe in the One God, even if One were to prefer not to, would be that He exists. But if He does exist, not to make room for Him would be nonsensical.

                    • john zande

                      The quote actually originates with Stephen F Roberts, “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

                      It’s a good, accurate meme.

                  • Ignostic Atheist

                    Most atheists are.

                    Believe me, John knows way more about the meanings of atheism and agnosticism than you do.

                    • cscottfowler

                      It’s nice you are defending your friend. You don’t know what I know. But you guys (more John than you) have basically only proven your arrogance. If you guys ever get to the point where you can have a respectful conversation someone might take you seriously. As it is, you are just like every other belligerent person on the internet! If you or John would like to demonstrate your great knowledge we all await such a demonstration with great anticipation! Perhaps you could write an article! I would be glad to display your superior intelligence on my blogs!

                    • Ignostic Atheist

                      It’s annoying when someone tries to pigeonhole us into either atheist or agnostic, as though they are mutually exclusive. They’re not. Here’s a couple articles for you.

                      I wouldn’t complain too much about all the other belligerent or disrespectful people on the internet while you’re proudly portraying a passive-aggressive persona.

                    • cscottfowler

                      I truly do appreciate your explanation about being pigeonholed and the links. Not everyone who has the ability to stay civil while at the same time disagreeing or even firmly making a critique is passive-agressive. I would actually appreciate a genuine dialogue sans all the personal stuff. It is possible to disagree and even argue without it turning personal. Thanks for the links.

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